Curse

Konig Des Todes · Sep 19, 2008, 12:01 AM // 00:01

I'll have to look back into that quest chain (and I knew that is what you were talking about). All I remember of that quest was the skale worshiping a very strong skale which we had to kill.

And, technically, everything has a culture, from insects (they have their own little hierarchy) to human beings. And that is what I was getting at.

But, whatever, and like I said, I'm going to have to look back into that quest chain... maybe my paragon can still do it.

Edit: after looking at the quest dialogue, it seems that Moa'vu'Kaal was just a very powerful Skale (it had an elite skill afterall). The legends by humans make it sound old, however, we don't know two things.

1. Is Moa'vu'Kaal just the name given to it by us because we believe it to be the old Moa'vu'Kaal, or is it really a dark "god" of the skales?
And,
2. Where did the Moa'vu'Kaal come from? Was it summoned via teleportation (like through a rift or something) or was it summoned, and it came from the mainland or something?

Until those two are answered, we cannot say it truly is a skale god, and the least we know is that the skales at least "worship" the strongest warrior (similar to how the Charr's leader is suppose to be the strongest Charr).

draxynnic · Sep 19, 2008, 03:43 AM // 03:43

Well, the Skale do then invade Beknur (I think) in order to get revenge for Moa'vu'Kaal's death. That sort of cause-and-effect thinking seems to imply some intelligence above the animal level.

There are also mobs in Istan that consist of mixed Skale and humans ("Istani cultists") indicating that it is possible for Skale and humans to coexist. This could simply be a process of the Skale choosing not to bite the hand that feeds it rather than a sign of sapience, however.

I'd probably be inclined to put them at a little below Grawl intelligence - very primitive and not exactly smart, but still having some rudimentary understanding of abstract concepts.

Konig Des Todes · Sep 19, 2008, 04:30 AM // 04:30

Although I agree with you that they are probably a little below, if not equal to, Grawl intelligence, I disagree with BrettM that they are Sentient, as I consider both Grawl and Skale semi-sentient (and only the Istani Skale seem to be semi-sentient). However, due to the quest The Cyclone Palace That the current skale leaders are unusually intelligent. Which means that the summoning of Moa'vu'Kall and the attacking swarms could have been devised by it, and afterwards, the skales went back to unintelligent swarms as before.

As for the Istani Cultists with the skales. That is actually what I was referring to before Moa'vu'Kaal came in. That there is some culture. I think those skale just like being worshipped, as they worship Moa'vu'Kaal.

The Skale has too little on them and their culture to really deduce much. I might add them to the list I mentioned before, but it won't be much I'm sure.

draxynnic · Sep 19, 2008, 05:58 AM // 05:58

I'd be inclined to agree with BrettM, actually - that they have a culture indicates such. But that doesn't mean they're smart. Or good with other races' languages - maybe 'oot' simply means they have a mostly nonverbal language?

We've also seen Charr successfully use Grawl as patsies before (presearing Ascalon) implying that they have found ways to communicate, however crudely, in the past. And we can probably also presume that Vael's concern about an alliance was a valid one.

All that said, we may just be arguing about where the line is placed on the continuum rather than where the Grawl and Skale lie on that continuum.

(What puts the Skale lower on the continuum is that while the Grawl do produce reasonably advanced tools (or at least know to pick them up when they find them), the Skale are still at the level of relying purely on their own bodies. This may, however, be more of an indication of how the natural abilities of the skales make tools redundant rather than an indication of low intelligence on the part of the Skale, however. Still, lack of tool use does remove an evolutionary pressure to become more intelligent - since they don't use tools, an individual that would in theory be able to make better tools doesn't receive as much of an advantage as in a tool-using society.)

Konig Des Todes · Sep 19, 2008, 06:05 AM // 06:05

I think the argument is more caused by my use of the term "semi-sentient," while you two call them sentient because they have culture and whatnot, I call them semi-sentient because they cannot communicate with us (although they can clearly communicate with each other, and the Charr *which, remember, in Prophecies, Charr were indicated to communicate through growls*). My "semi-" comes from the fact that they are not bi(or more)lingual, while other sentient races *humans, tengu, charr, etc* are.

But we are getting way off topic now.